Reptopry

Player vs Player - Issues and possible fixes.

7 posts in this topic

For about a year - year and a half, there has been a large increase in Shield / Tank players as opposed to the much heavier hitting classes. Edits have a play in this because you can still reach Physical Defense values that most players have a hard time denting and still be able to one shot most of your opponents with Sonic Boom.

1) Block Rate - Because of the increase in shield users, this game mechanic has become much more unavoidable. Block essentially eliminates all of your damage and you're left to just get popped by the opposing players. With that being said, Block is such a strong mechanic that ANY class with an ability that has damage to one shot other players from a range are able to simply equip a shield, have a paladin or Phalanx buff them and essentially become invincible granted their luck is in their favor.

Possible Fix - Reduce damage reduction on blocked attacks. If I'm hitting a player 8,000 x 2 With Sonic Boom my damage (my opinion) should not be reduced to 1,000 x 2.
 

2) Physical Defense - Now, I am not saying this stat is unfair or unbalanced, but with the new Level 135 Private Donation Set combined with Edited Items with Vitality, it is basically impossible for a normal player to do any damage to these Edited Tanks.
I bring this up because prior to the 135 Items, you could still deal damage an edited tank with normal items and eventually kill them, however now the minimum damage for Burning Crash is a whopping 9 Damage and 12 with RM Buff.

Possible Fix - Put an actual minimum damage in PvP instead of 1. I'm not saying make it around 2,500 or something along those lines, just enough that if you have enough damage incoming, you're not going to walk away with 40 damage taken.


3) Protection Aura (Party Holy Barrier) - 3-4 Magnus parties have become a by-product of the Tank Era. Each magnus has Protection Aura which lasts (numbers may be wrong here) 3 seconds and has a cooldown of 7 seconds. Multiply that by 3-4 and you have a 9-12 second PARTY Holy Barrier which has essentially a 7 Second cooldown because it's looping between multiple players.

Possible Fix - Have Protection Aura dissipate after taking x amount of damage and increase cooldown. This does not apply to Holy Barrier mage ability, that has a long enough cooldown in relation to it's length that it is not such a big deal. With this fix it will allow you to maybe get a good flank off and destroy the current Protection Aura shields and allows your team to come in and finish off a few kills.

 

This last one is relating to Rogues.

4) Casting Foil - This skill is quite hated in the community because of it's unique property to cancel any skill you are currently casting and stop you from completely another action until the debuff is removed. However, in Wars this skill has much bigger properties that most people aren't aware of, however in the more active PvP community it is heavily abused. One property being the fact that Foil does not remove you from Stealth (I understand, you aren't dealing damage so why would it, right?), however this brings a few problems with it, you can foil mages trying to use Beholder and basically be hidden forever and the cooldown is low enough that doing so won't put you in a situation where you can't stop a high priority target. The second and probably the most abused property of Casting Foil is the fact that when used on someone with any sort of crowd control that is not a Stun,(Paralyze / Sleep / Freeze / Silence) it will COMPLETELY REMOVE this effect from the player although they still have the effect on both their debuff bar and visually on their character. This is not only a big problem when you need to sleep someone but it also makes it so for the remainder of the Crowd Control that was cancelled (Sometimes multiple - Silence + Ice + Sleep) you can not reapply it to the target that was foiled. 

 

Possible Fix - Make Foil remove you from stealth & No longer cancel Crowd Control effects (Maybe increase cooldown by a few seconds). If these fixes are set into place it will make Elf Rogues think a lot more about their use of this fight changing ability and will balance PvP In such a crucial way because when you lock a target or a mage with Silence or Sleep/Ice, you will know they are not getting out of it until damage is taken which is much easier to coordinate with a team.

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Another way to help calm down this block insanity is to make a few changes to the Solid Shield buff. As it stands, Solid Shield at level 5 adds 40% block rate for 20 minutes. If you add this buff to a Paladin, they can block 93% of all incoming attacks. Top this off with a CB Set and the Iron Shied Buff, they can have a block rate upwards of 105%.

The problem here is that once you add all this up, and throw in the fact that Paladins can also deal damage from range and have super high physical defense, it makes them damn near invincible and they also can dish out high damage.

This problem is multiplied when you add edits into the mix, as these edited players are already taking barely over 1000 damage a hit, and top that off with 93% block rate, it's no wonder everyone is using Paladins or Phalanx>Magnus!

A simple way to fix this is to make the buff Solid Shield wear off after X amount of hits, and have the cool down be increased.

An Example:

Paladin Uses Solid Shield ----> Paladin is hit 15 times by incoming skills -----> Solid Shield wears off because of said hits ------>Paladin has an opening until the Solid Shield buff cools down -----> After the cooldown has passed, the Paladin can once again use its Solid Shield buff to block a further 15 hits.

I'm not saying the hit amount should be 15, however, going about it this way will make it so block must be used strategically and isn't a failsafe for all shield users. This will make things much more interesting during wars as Paladins and other tanks will have a window in which they are vulnerable, and aren't just walking around taking 0 damage from incoming attacks because they "blocked" it.

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Let's see point by point:

 

Block: Block reduces regular attacks but crits still get through, with how insane critical damage is (we tried to fix that, nobody was willing to give up their easily earned crit damage) without block tanks are useless against rogues, which shouldn't be the case. See below for the continued point.

 

Physical Defense: You're talking about non-edited players vs edited players (mind you the current item level cap is 135 and when level 150 opens up this won't be an issue, if the level cap was also 135 this wouldn't be an issue either) so if we nerf this what happens to non-edited tanks, which is 95% of the population?

 

Protection Aura: I agree this skill is overpowered and will get a look at in the future.

Casting Foil: this is the first time I hear about it not removing stealth, because it should.

Solid Shield: @Jonah that seems so much more complicated than a simpler solution which would be lower the block rate given and add a -Phys ATK debuff that comes with the buff. Trade more block for less damage.

 

A thing I would like to point out; it is really disappointing that our community only wishes to report bugs after it annoyed them too much and not the first time they encounter it.

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You're right about the non-edited tank players, it's just a majority of the players that are using the new 135 PD armor set happen to be edited. I just brought it up because prior to these items you could still damage tanks with crazy high Physical Defense to the point where they eventually would die, sorry.

As for block, I agree with the idea of some sort of trade-off with the Solid Shield buff and Jonah had brought it up on a few occasions and it makes total sense. 

 

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8 hours ago, Orange said:

Let's see point by point:

 

Block: Block reduces regular attacks but crits still get through, with how insane critical damage is (we tried to fix that, nobody was willing to give up their easily earned crit damage) without block tanks are useless against rogues, which shouldn't be the case. See below for the continued point.

 

Physical Defense: You're talking about non-edited players vs edited players (mind you the current item level cap is 135 and when level 150 opens up this won't be an issue, if the level cap was also 135 this wouldn't be an issue either) so if we nerf this what happens to non-edited tanks, which is 95% of the population?

 

Protection Aura: I agree this skill is overpowered and will get a look at in the future.

Casting Foil: this is the first time I hear about it not removing stealth, because it should.

Solid Shield: @Jonah that seems so much more complicated than a simpler solution which would be lower the block rate given and add a -Phys ATK debuff that comes with the buff. Trade more block for less damage.

 

A thing I would like to point out; it is really disappointing that our community only wishes to report bugs after it annoyed them too much and not the first time they encounter it.

It barely has an effect on me because I play mages. It's just that in war all you see is paladins dropping everyone that comes in sight because no one can damage them and most of them hit like trucks and have sonic boom. Paladin isn't played like a tank because they can deal damage from a distance. So you can't deal much damage to them at all unless you get close in the first place, and they just repel you with a single sonic boom. 

Also, for the most part rogues are useless vs Tanks because Tanks have the range that they do because of Sonic Boom. Rogues can barely even scratch them because of low physical attack. Even with the crazy critical damage we have, if your physical attack is low, versus a tank you'll be lucky if you crit 5 damage.  

As for crits getting through, the problem with this is that even with crits getting through it only happens once in a blue moon with paladins. You can literally die 20 times by a Paladin before you even strike a crit. 

I wasn't saying to completely get rid of block I was just suggesting to lower the utility of solid shield so they aren't walking around entire wars for hours on end taking only 45 damage the entire time. I do believe that there should at least be some sort of trade off in physical attack attributes if you take shield training, like you said.

Paladin is one of those classes that doesn't necessarily have a good trade off unless it's critical rate, and even then there's easy ways to boost it and still maintain your damage and defense. Top this off with the fact that they're elves and they can get rune impact, Strike doesn't even really factor in for them. I'm just saying that this class is particularly dominant over all of the others because of its ridiculous block rate and high stat capabilities. 

Foil:

The skill is being used now by TM's to:

Foil enemies in war while maintaining stealth, so they just focus on foiling one person while hidden so that person can't move at all. This becomes a problem because they go undetected while stopping all movement from whatever target they choose as many times as they want until that person somehow gets beholder. 

Its also used by guilds in open wars of all nature to escape sleep, ice and silence. This is exploited by these guilds because they just war their own low level guild and put TM's in it to cancel the effects placed on them. 

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my "only and one only" suggestion is:
>Please fix the "Magical Damage" on "Player Against Players"

is Nerfed too much since I first time Play Celestia Luna (2011), and it makes Cardinal become number 1 Popular Mages on that time
why? is because Cardinal has skill DoT "Holy Taker" that has damages 1k per seconds. So who cares about Pure Magical Damage?
And how about another Mage's Jobs that don't have DoT Skills but only relying on Pure Magical Damage? for example: Grand Master?
you will need at least Magical Attack around 15k or even 20k to get ideal damages against Players...
so if we only has 10k Magical Attack or Lower, the Magical Damage against Players are really Low...

is just like... the damages is Nerfed more than 1/2 Damages, so maybe is nearly 1/4 from the real damages, or even maybe is only 10% from the real damages? (I hate math, sorry) :D
no wonder if people is almost never pick status "Wisdom" because is almost useless to increase the Magical Defend on Against Players

so yes please... please fix the "Magical Damage" on "Player Against Players"

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14 hours ago, Antoni77 said:

my "only and one only" suggestion is:
>Please fix the "Magical Damage" on "Player Against Players"

is Nerfed too much since I first time Play Celestia Luna (2011), and it makes Cardinal become number 1 Popular Mages on that time
why? is because Cardinal has skill DoT "Holy Taker" that has damages 1k per seconds. So who cares about Pure Magical Damage?
And how about another Mage's Jobs that don't have DoT Skills but only relying on Pure Magical Damage? for example: Grand Master?
you will need at least Magical Attack around 15k or even 20k to get ideal damages against Players...
so if we only has 10k Magical Attack or Lower, the Magical Damage against Players are really Low...

is just like... the damages is Nerfed more than 1/2 Damages, so maybe is nearly 1/4 from the real damages, or even maybe is only 10% from the real damages? (I hate math, sorry) :D
no wonder if people is almost never pick status "Wisdom" because is almost useless to increase the Magical Defend on Against Players

so yes please... please fix the "Magical Damage" on "Player Against Players"

same suggestion here.

Paladins are physical tanks, and the way you deal with them is with magic.

Magic casting classes are become less favorite class because their lack abilities in PVP. Nerfed damage? ofc.

they need to get like 20k+ of M.atk to get 10k+ critical damage on same level PVP using Cardinal's Turn Undead which is turns out to be the strongest spell in the game.

while a 1 handed physical class can easily do 3k 3k sonic boom, and 2handed class can do twice of it. With amazingly fast casting animation, and attack speed, 

People play Cardinals as a tanking mage with DoT skill. That's why there's a lot of cardinals around.

and also.. I'm waiting for the update that make DoT skill damage will be based on magical attack (I think I read it somewhere..)

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