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Stat & Class Balancing


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17 hours ago, Orange said:

we also have plans to make Damage Over Time spells depend on your stats. Each type of DoT (bleed, poison, magical damage) would depend on different stats and not be the same damage for everybody.

I think this is a good idea, it will be either str/agi/patk affect bleeding that rogue have, what about these type of dots? These DoTs are dealt by both matk and patk user...

Burn: Fighters have a skill that burns, and also Mages, 

Poison: Rogues, Fighters, and Mages they have these skills..

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

I played mages for may years, and the only important status for INT type mage is INT and VIT. Wisdom is useless since you can get decent MP recovery by getting a high MATK with Bloodstream skill.

Maybe you can make some changes like this

INT: Magic attack, Magic Crit damage, Magic Defense (not as much as WIS does), Damage Source of Magic Skills (Grand Masters, Necromancers, Soul Arbiter)

WIS: Magic attack (not as much as INT does), Magic Crit rate, Healing Amount, Magic Defense, Damage Source of Holy Skills (Cardinals, Rune Masters), Source of buff power? (not basic status buffs but more to other status. Making WIS as source of buff powers will make support classes arise!)

Speaking of buffs, I think Orpheus' Poem might need also a little change from 10/20/35/45 INT into some % of your INT/WIS so either you build your Cardinal (or other mage class that goes from Bishop) into a support class you can also get benefit from this skill

And as for Crusaders, IF WIS also increase Magic Attack (still not as much as INT does) maybe they should make WIS as their main Status since crusader is a hybrid support and damage class, and have their Holy Skills get damage from WIS just like Cardinals and Rune Master Holy skills

NOTEs:

Physical Crit rate can be boosted by reinforcement on weapon and also cloak philo, while M.Crit rate couldn't.

Magical damage is totally nerfed in PVP at this moment

Some physical weapon adds VIT (more HP) and none have HP penalty (but Muramasa, it's a low level tho), while high level wand give you a lot HP penalty

High level Light and Heavy armor give VIT and also have more P.Def, while Robe gives you HP penalty and less P.Def

Basic status buffs I meant is anything that affect STR,INT,VIT,AGI,WIS; 1. Fighter Heart; 2. Intelligence; 3. Zephyr; 4. Wisdom; 5. Orpheus' Poem

Other buffs is something like Might, Shield, and more but those buffs mentioned above

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I agree with dex stat dont give crit damage anymore but. Why max crit damage just 250%???

Base crit damage is 150% and max 250%. And how about rogue? Thats why rogue have little damage, many rogue passive skil and buff is for incrase critical damage. At lvl 105 rogue dual have 34% total crit damage from advance knife and other buff and passive can be up 120% crit damage, especially TM and BT, but 150% to 250% just have different 100% crit damage right? We just can add 100% crit damage, imagine rogue buff and passive can add 120% crit damage, max just 100%, so where are 20% left? Is useless right? Many passive and buff be useless.

And mage unbalance now, they not need int and just fill they vit, they can beat rogue and fighter use their dot(cardi and necro) #thuglife. But see rogue DOT XD, rogue DOT just 200-350/s. And mage? OMG. I hope My beloved GM and staff can balance that to so celes can more fun. Just share opinion no offence

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21 minutes ago, fadelfa21 said:

I agree with dex stat dont give crit damage anymore but. Why max crit damage just 250%???

Base crit damage is 150% and max 250%. And how about rogue? Thats why rogue have little damage, many rogue passive skil and buff is for incrase critical damage. At lvl 105 rogue dual have 34% total crit damage from advance knife and other buff and passive can be up 120% crit damage, especially TM and BT, but 150% to 250% just have different 100% crit damage right? We just can add 100% crit damage, imagine rogue buff and passive can add 120% crit damage, max just 100%, so where are 20% left? Is useless right? Many passive and buff be useless.

And mage unbalance now, they not need int and just fill they vit, they can beat rogue and fighter use their dot(cardi and necro) #thuglife. But see rogue DOT XD, rogue DOT just 200-350/s. And mage? OMG. I hope My beloved GM and staff can balance that to so celes can more fun. Just share opinion no offence

stun lock perm+ 400 dot is a for sure win is what I just seen. I think no skill should be stun locking someone perm. and right now rogues hit hard enough edit and not edit to 1shot after you died once atleast.

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7 minutes ago, Retaliate said:

stun lock perm+ 400 dot is a for sure win is what I just seen. I think no skill should be stun locking someone perm. and right now rogues hit hard enough edit and not edit to 1shot after you died once atleast.

Hmm. . "Hit hard enough". Tell it to mage vit. And use ur rogue to kill mage vit, you just can hit mage vit 3k, and mage vit will kill you like a piece of cake #kaboom

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We might raise the cap to 300%, tank jobs don't get buffs and passives with crit damage so they would depend on items to get it, maximum they would get is 180% maybe 200%.

Jobs that have passives and buffs for critical damage could get 50%-100% more just from skills, add another 20%-50% from items. So 300% would fit it better.

We could make dexterity give critical damage but much lower than before, before it was 0.3 per DEX, we could make it 0.1 or 0.05.

 

As for DoTs, we would make all DoT types depend on a stat, for example bleed damage could depend on accuracy, poison damage could depend on int and magical DoT and burn could depend on INT or INT and WIS.

Magical critical damage would also be capped at 300%.

Wisdom could add magical critical rate and magical critical damage at the same rate dexterity gives physical critical damage and rate.

I would remove accuracy from strength so dexterity is more important and the only source of accuracy (besides skills and items).

 

Axe training could give critical damage and critical rate (a bit less critical rate to balance both bonuses) so axes are important again.

Some skills could get the sword only rule removed, like sword storm.

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foil then stun skills back to back with dots 400 a sec thats a win...for a rogue and noone has 3k vit besides edit users they dont count. no balance patch can fix them unless they remove edit stats..[this from me pvping on my 21k hp mage 5.5k def already faced a rogue that stun lock perm with 400 dot skills added to it] its not like im just saying random things lol I already faced this after patch..also idk any rogues that hit under 8k crits most i face are 10-15k crits this is without edit stats. I think ppl just miss 1hitting everything insight lol

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14 minutes ago, Retaliate said:

foil then stun skills back to back with dots 400 a sec thats a win...for a rogue and noone has 3k vit besides edit users they dont count. no balance patch can fix them unless they remove edit stats..[this from me pvping on my 21k hp mage 5.5k def already faced a rogue that stun lock perm with 400 dot skills added to it] its not like im just saying random things lol I already faced this after patch..also idk any rogues that hit under 8k crits most i face are 10-15k crits this is without edit stats. I think ppl just miss 1hitting everything insight lol

okay If iam Rogue elf i have a Foil, Now IF iam BT Human and Dual User what must i do?

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some say mage was too overpower,but what is the overpower power about mage? its because they have supertank power and crazy DOT damage?every job has their own abilities and also rogue and fighter has their own abilities rogue has crit fighter has high PA that could blow away every job he facing.the one who said that mage is overpower is because is just hate mage so much or always keep fail win battling againts mage,lol im not racist but every job in has their own abilities that what my opinion and thats why im disagree with this idk for other player lol

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1 minute ago, adityaxzx said:

okay If iam Rogue elf i have a Foil, Now IF iam BT Human and Dual User what must i do?

you can still 2 hit a mage as BT human dual. you don't need foil I just said what a rogue can do. stun perm lock and dot dmg if your dmg too low but your a bt you dont need any of that your dmg already enough to kill a mage in 2 hits not edit. and if your bt dmg lower than 10k crits then you need to redo your stats/gears.

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31 minutes ago, Orange said:

We might raise the cap to 300%, tank jobs don't get buffs and passives with crit damage so they would depend on items to get it, maximum they would get is 180% maybe 200%.

Jobs that have passives and buffs for critical damage could get 50%-100% more just from skills, add another 20%-50% from items. So 300% would fit it better.

We could make dexterity give critical damage but much lower than before, before it was 0.3 per DEX, we could make it 0.1 or 0.05.

 

As for DoTs, we would make all DoT types depend on a stat, for example bleed damage could depend on accuracy, poison damage could depend on int and magical DoT and burn could depend on INT or INT and WIS.

Magical critical damage would also be capped at 300%.

Wisdom could add magical critical rate and magical critical damage at the same rate dexterity gives physical critical damage and rate.

I would remove accuracy from strength so dexterity is more important and the only source of accuracy (besides skills and items).

 

Axe training could give critical damage and critical rate (a bit less critical rate to balance both bonuses) so axes are important again.

Some skills could get the sword only rule removed, like sword storm.

what about sonic boom and double sonic boom? although I dont miss this change but it will make axe less dead..and lol dex/wis sounding little op now..however I wish nera harbor monsters did not stun if our damage is not 1shot monsters now. cause glass cannon classes will just die there if their dmg can't keep them alive. or just reduce the stun chance or duration. after theses changes do you plan make m attack back to normal? or stay nerfed? aka 10k phy atk can do same dmg as 30k m atk <example, but im asking will it be 20k m atk will do same as 20k phy atk

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3 hours ago, Fifin said:

I think this is a good idea, it will be either str/agi/patk affect bleeding that rogue have, what about these type of dots? These DoTs are dealt by both matk and patk user...

Burn: Fighters have a skill that burns, and also Mages, 

Poison: Rogues, Fighters, and Mages they have these skills..

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

I played mages for may years, and the only important status for INT type mage is INT and VIT. Wisdom is useless since you can get decent MP recovery by getting a high MATK with Bloodstream skill.

Maybe you can make some changes like this

INT: Magic attack, Magic Crit damage, Magic Defense (not as much as WIS does), Damage Source of Magic Skills (Grand Masters, Necromancers, Soul Arbiter)

WIS: Magic attack (not as much as INT does), Magic Crit rate, Healing Amount, Magic Defense, Damage Source of Holy Skills (Cardinals, Rune Masters), Source of buff power? (not basic status buffs but more to other status. Making WIS as source of buff powers will make support classes arise!)

Speaking of buffs, I think Orpheus' Poem might need also a little change from 10/20/35/45 INT into some % of your INT/WIS so either you build your Cardinal (or other mage class that goes from Bishop) into a support class you can also get benefit from this skill

And as for Crusaders, IF WIS also increase Magic Attack (still not as much as INT does) maybe they should make WIS as their main Status since crusader is a hybrid support and damage class, and have their Holy Skills get damage from WIS just like Cardinals and Rune Master Holy skills

NOTEs:

Physical Crit rate can be boosted by reinforcement on weapon and also cloak philo, while M.Crit rate couldn't.

Magical damage is totally nerfed in PVP at this moment

Some physical weapon adds VIT (more HP) and none have HP penalty (but Muramasa, it's a low level tho), while high level wand give you a lot HP penalty

High level Light and Heavy armor give VIT and also have more P.Def, while Robe gives you HP penalty and less P.Def

Basic status buffs I meant is anything that affect STR,INT,VIT,AGI,WIS; 1. Fighter Heart; 2. Intelligence; 3. Zephyr; 4. Wisdom; 5. Orpheus' Poem

Other buffs is something like Might, Shield, and more but those buffs mentioned above

If INT affect Magic Ddef and WIS affect Magic Attack even it's not as much as WIS/INT does, then VIT should affect Phy Attack and Str should affect Phy Deff aswell.

I think it makes more complicated, and I dont see that usefull, so I don't agree with this.

 

I agree if WIS affect the Healing amount and Magical Critical Rate, because, yes Magic Critical Rate can't be boost by reinforcement.

And, it would be good if WIS also affect the Magic Cast Speed

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2 hours ago, Retaliate said:

you can still 2 hit a mage as BT human dual. you don't need foil I just said what a rogue can do. stun perm lock and dot dmg if your dmg too low but your a bt you dont need any of that your dmg already enough to kill a mage in 2 hits not edit. and if your bt dmg lower than 10k crits then you need to redo your stats/gears.

ok i know i can kill with 2 hit but mage have a stun the lightining stun and shield of justice and Bt didnt have any stun now if dual user :') Sad BT human

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Well, I really appreciated new update, is glad to know that every tanker/vit type character can't be killed 1 hit anymore by everyone

But, in my opinion, almost all peoples will be frustrate when they know their damage decrease into approximately 35-40% than it used to be.

How if I said there's some better way to make player feel glad with new updates and it makes all job more balance too.

Well let me explain the way I think, don't decrease too much critical damage from it used to be.

Just improve physical defense and HP gain from vitality stat due to either high critical damage/high physical attack can be resisted only by high physical defense. 

Moreover, peoples would rather see his big damage in bulky enemy than tiny damage in weaker enemy.

It can be totally the same, and just the matters of psychologist.

Furthermore, If you improve HP of all character, it makes fix damage skill which is mostly damage over time skills such as Holy Taker and Venom Cloud isn't as useful as it used to be. I consider this too because I think I will feel disappoint if I were a fully vit mage which only depends on DOT skills.

 

Just correct me if I'm wrong and thanks for read my opinions.

~ Happy new year and God bless you ~

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1 hour ago, Antoni said:

Well, I really appreciated new update, is glad to know that every tanker/vit type character can't be killed 1 hit anymore by everyone

But, in my opinion, almost all peoples will be frustrate when they know their damage decrease into approximately 35-40% than it used to be.

How if I said there's some better way to make player feel glad with new updates and it makes all job more balance too.

Well let me explain the way I think, don't decrease too much critical damage from it used to be.

Just improve physical defense and HP gain from vitality stat due to either high critical damage/high physical attack can be resisted only by high physical defense. 

Moreover, peoples would rather see his big damage in bulky enemy than tiny damage in weaker enemy.

It can be totally the same, and just the matters of psychologist.

Furthermore, If you improve HP of all character, it makes fix damage skill which is mostly damage over time skills such as Holy Taker and Venom Cloud isn't as useful as it used to be. I consider this too because I think I will feel disappoint if I were a fully vit mage which only depends on DOT skills.

 

Just correct me if I'm wrong and thanks for read my opinions.

~ Happy new year and God bless you ~

If we talk about improving Phy Def and HP gain from VIT, then they should Improve Magical Attack too.
because the gap between Phy attack and Mag Attack is too big.

About the DoT, I think it's not fair for classes who depend on DoT skills,
like entrapper or cardinal or necromancer fully VIT type.
Compare with other classes, they should choose between def or atk, but not for DoT-ers.
That's why, DoT skills damage is better depend on their stats like STR or INT.

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6 hours ago, chethe said:

If INT affect Magic Ddef and WIS affect Magic Attack even it's not as much as WIS/INT does, then VIT should affect Phy Attack and Str should affect Phy Deff aswell.

I think it makes more complicated, and I dont see that usefull, so I don't agree with this.

 

I agree if WIS affect the Healing amount and Magical Critical Rate, because, yes Magic Critical Rate can't be boost by reinforcement.

And, it would be good if WIS also affect the Magic Cast Speed

as for Phys I think it might be a good idead if AGI also affects Patk like WIS does to MATK

maybe like 5 or 7 points of AGI/WIS will be equal to 1 point of STR/INT Patk/Matk bonus

Why? Rogues have low patk, they rely on critical very much, take a look at dagger and 1h Sword patk, it's really different.

So Rogues will still get some PATK with full AGI build (not comparable to full STR one)

and maybe giving VIT a few Mdef (5 or 7 points of VIT will equal to 1 WIS Mdef) would be nice since tanks like Paladin will get benefit from raising VIT

I know it will sounds a little bit complicated, but with it you will have "alternate" build. So you will need to put your status more carefully

If we're trying to get MCrit rate from WIS we will need a quiet good number of it. Since some Physical Dex user can gets like 80-90% critical rate by enhancing their weapons and cloaks and also with accessories that increase PCrit rate.

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i'll give my point of view since i'm playing with 1h fighter

  • We have plans to balance how damage is dealt through blocked hits, we may apply a minimum damage a character can take if they block the damage, so blocked damage can no longer be 0

it's a yes for me because even without high p deff, you could easily blocked incoming damage. so if this patch applied shield user tend to think increasing their p deff too. not only depending on block rate

  • We may apply a minimum damage a character can take from monsters, so characters with a lot of physical defense still take some damage, instead of only 1 damage.

not really but considering to make some monster have magic attack, so, tankers need to increasing their magic deff too, or supporting job like RM not only support for war but also hunting. 

  • We have plans to balance magical critical damage and add a cap to it, just like physical critical damage.
  • We may make wisdom count for magical critical rate, like dexterity does for physical critical rate.

can't say about this

  • We are considering raising the critical damage cap to 300% and making dexterity give some critical damage, but not like before.
  • We could make dexterity give critical damage but much lower than before, before it was 0.3 per DEX, we could make it 0.1 or 0.05

i agree this one, but if (Axe training could give critical damage and critical rate (a bit less critical rate to balance both bonuses) so axes are important again.

Some skills could get the sword only rule removed, like sword storm.) this applied.

some problem for 1h user is raising crit. thanks to axe mortality it could increase my crit and crit damage. but then axe can't be used for sb or dsb while people relying that skills. and changing into sword worsen the crit.

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12 hours ago, Fifin said:

I think this is a good idea, it will be either str/agi/patk affect bleeding that rogue have, what about these type of dots? These DoTs are dealt by both matk and patk user...

Burn: Fighters have a skill that burns, and also Mages, 

Poison: Rogues, Fighters, and Mages they have these skills..

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

I played mages for may years, and the only important status for INT type mage is INT and VIT. Wisdom is useless since you can get decent MP recovery by getting a high MATK with Bloodstream skill.

Maybe you can make some changes like this

INT: Magic attack, Magic Crit damage, Magic Defense (not as much as WIS does), Damage Source of Magic Skills (Grand Masters, Necromancers, Soul Arbiter)

WIS: Magic attack (not as much as INT does), Magic Crit rate, Healing Amount, Magic Defense, Damage Source of Holy Skills (Cardinals, Rune Masters), Source of buff power? (not basic status buffs but more to other status. Making WIS as source of buff powers will make support classes arise!)

Speaking of buffs, I think Orpheus' Poem might need also a little change from 10/20/35/45 INT into some % of your INT/WIS so either you build your Cardinal (or other mage class that goes from Bishop) into a support class you can also get benefit from this skill

And as for Crusaders, IF WIS also increase Magic Attack (still not as much as INT does) maybe they should make WIS as their main Status since crusader is a hybrid support and damage class, and have their Holy Skills get damage from WIS just like Cardinals and Rune Master Holy skills

NOTEs:

Physical Crit rate can be boosted by reinforcement on weapon and also cloak philo, while M.Crit rate couldn't.

Magical damage is totally nerfed in PVP at this moment

Some physical weapon adds VIT (more HP) and none have HP penalty (but Muramasa, it's a low level tho), while high level wand give you a lot HP penalty

High level Light and Heavy armor give VIT and also have more P.Def, while Robe gives you HP penalty and less P.Def

Basic status buffs I meant is anything that affect STR,INT,VIT,AGI,WIS; 1. Fighter Heart; 2. Intelligence; 3. Zephyr; 4. Wisdom; 5. Orpheus' Poem

Other buffs is something like Might, Shield, and more but those buffs mentioned above

I agree with this,  make a stat that would contribute to Magical Crit rate so that Int warriors/Mages would not solely depend on fortunate Magic/Twinkle Magic or just make it an additional possible stat to items just like Physical critical rate. :)

Not speaking about a stat giving differen bonuses, just about Magical Crit rate on one stat, thats all. :)

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My AR damage from 70K decreased to 30K pretty lame. This is biggest nerfed ever.

I don't understand why you jump the gun by balancing the classes right now. I mean job passive not even fixed and other stuff that could be added. Anyway, after reading your reply I would like to point out that if you need feedback from community Orange you should do the poll or outline so we all can read and give you a feedback. This is just step closer to Luna Plus. Are you copying file from Luna plus or something and why did you recruit the beta team sign up if you implanted this, did you ask them for a feedback. the biggest thing that upset me the most is you kind of force us to buy re-stats in order to enjoy the game and this adjust may not even final, so we have to buy it again in the future right ?. I mean if you already have job balance planed out why don't put patch everything and see the feedback. I do not like how you put a piece by piece update like this and call it balancing patch. If you want to player to have a challenge why don't you implant boss raid or high map instead. Also if you want to change to stats like this at least give out free re stats for players.

If you have low PA but high critical damage will be almost the same as high PA but low critical damage. Just SAYING

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On 1/1/2017 at 3:29 AM, Orange said:

Please use English in these forums.

While I'm able to understand a little we also have plans to make Damage Over Time spells depend on your stats. Each type of DoT (bleed, poison, magical damage) would depend on different stats and not be the same damage for everybody.

magical damage like holy taker please dont make it change as what ours magic attack stats.... im vit type cardinal and if u change it depend in magical attack poor VIT cardinal ..... cant survive in war/pvp/duel ... holy taker is the only skill that can kill tanker/fighter/rouge of DOT cardinal .... pls dont make it random damage because if it change ...RIP cardinal :(

 

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Cardinal is not a damager, the only reason cardinal is the most used class is because of that one skill, but cardinal has all the heals and all the buffs, you cannot have it all, cardinal is a healer and support job, not damage job. We will fix and make the other mage jobs more fun and useful so that there are true damage mage jobs like grandmaster and soul arbiter, which are the actual damage jobs.

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2 minutes ago, Orange said:

Cardinal is not a damager, the only reason cardinal is the most used class is because of that one skill, but cardinal has all the heals and all the buffs, you cannot have it all, cardinal is a healer and support job, not damage job. We will fix and make the other mage jobs more fun and useful so that there are true damage mage jobs like grandmaster and soul arbiter, which are the actual damage jobs.

but please dont make magical  attack base of DOT its my skill ... im a normal player (not edit) some player can dominate me because of their stun and killing skills so what im saying is DOT mage can be war type too ... support/war type ... its been so lame if im turn into a support mage only becasue of my magic damage

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5 minutes ago, Orange said:

Cardinal is not a damager, the only reason cardinal is the most used class is because of that one skill, but cardinal has all the heals and all the buffs, you cannot have it all, cardinal is a healer and support job, not damage job. We will fix and make the other mage jobs more fun and useful so that there are true damage mage jobs like grandmaster and soul arbiter, which are the actual damage jobs.

soul arbiter and grandmaster is the most imba mage now in cl fast casting faster runner and imba damage so if cardinal is making as support mage so whats the point to be an war type cardinal ..... some player uses grandmaster and soul arbiter like glorycious (grand master) and jonah (soul arbiter) glorycious is not edit mage but hes magic and skill is awsome... and jonah is edit mage .... he can dominate all player because of his magic attack... so if cardinal DOT is change ..... the game is never been before.... no fun at all... its just a comment/request ma'am orange pls.... for the sake of other cardinal player like me

 

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