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Stat & Class Balancing

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1 hour ago, darkira691 said:

soul arbiter and grandmaster is the most imba mage now in cl fast casting faster runner and imba damage so if cardinal is making as support mage so whats the point to be an war type cardinal ..... some player uses grandmaster and soul arbiter like glorycious (grand master) and jonah (soul arbiter) glorycious is not edit mage but hes magic and skill is awsome... and jonah is edit mage .... he can dominate all player because of his magic attack... so if cardinal DOT is change ..... the game is never been before.... no fun at all... its just a comment/request ma'am orange pls.... for the sake of other cardinal player like me

 

no need to beg, cause in the end if the patch happens and its bad as how ''luna plus'' did it then most will complain or leave and the only smart thing to do would be revert the patch. but yeah with theses fixs/changes we do need ''change scrolls'' aka reset jobs to base, aka stat reset, skill reset free after each balance..cause as stated if this does happen I do want to switch my jobs without ''releveling up'' again. cause some jobs are gonna be very useless lol.

 

to be fully honest theses changes are just like luna plus...just hope the pvp dont turn bad as luna plus..right now a non edit mage and non edit fighter can win and lose same about rogue..so to me right now this change would be more nice if edits was removed but yeah..that wont happen 

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What is the point of PvP if you can one hit people? Even without edits, there was 1hitting in PvP Tournaments. That is not PvP.

What is so bad about challenge? Trying to outsmart your enemy in battle, the intensity of a longer fight? Trying to think of a better path or build than others?

I don't know how Luna+ was, but what was so bad about PvP there?

 

We have decided to revert the stat changes, and leave balancing for a later time.

We will create a test map where we can test out stat and skill changes without affecting the other maps and get feedback before patching.

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28 minutes ago, Orange said:

What is the point of PvP if you can one hit people? Even without edits, there was 1hitting in PvP Tournaments. That is not PvP.

What is so bad about challenge? Trying to outsmart your enemy in battle, the intensity of a longer fight? Trying to think of a better path or build than others?

I don't know how Luna+ was, but what was so bad about PvP there?

 

We have decided to revert the stat changes, and leave balancing for a later time.

We will create a test server where we can test out stat and skill changes without affecting the live server and get feedback before patching it to the live server.

i got no problem with not 1hitting people as my only char that could do that even barely was destroyer so im use to it..I dont dislike the recent change but i do dislike the dot skill idea, I mean I like what you trying to do but thats gonna be really hard with edits still in effect..I dont mind long battle or weak dmg for every1 thats fine..but long as its fair I don't think nerfing dot skill is fair though. when some other characters can perm stun lock and do double dots which will look like 800-900 a sec together. the guy you hitting can have 500k hp but long as you stun lock him perm with constant dot being used its a lose. full vit normal cardi and necro non edit can't do any real dmg besides dots the fighter/rogue still has a chance.

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14 hours ago, Antoni said:

Well, I really appreciated new update, is glad to know that every tanker/vit type character can't be killed 1 hit anymore by everyone

But, in my opinion, almost all peoples will be frustrate when they know their damage decrease into approximately 35-40% than it used to be.

How if I said there's some better way to make player feel glad with new updates and it makes all job more balance too.

Well let me explain the way I think, don't decrease too much critical damage from it used to be.

Just improve physical defense and HP gain from vitality stat due to either high critical damage/high physical attack can be resisted only by high physical defense. 

Moreover, peoples would rather see his big damage in bulky enemy than tiny damage in weaker enemy.

It can be totally the same, and just the matters of psychologist.

Furthermore, If you improve HP of all character, it makes fix damage skill which is mostly damage over time skills such as Holy Taker and Venom Cloud isn't as useful as it used to be. I consider this too because I think I will feel disappoint if I were a fully vit mage which only depends on DOT skills.

 

Just correct me if I'm wrong and thanks for read my opinions.

~ Happy new year and God bless you ~

I think i agree with this. No more major reducing.no need to change many things

.just add some vit effect to p deff and health point.its psychologically better to add than reduce

And its make the GM work more easier.

So even rogues has huge damages none will die 1 hit (if you use somes vit).and also even mages got HuGe DoTs or damages and got No WIS.huge HP will handle it.

But still need to reduce cd a bit.

And WIS for magic crit.i kind like it.

Thank you and sorry for bad english

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22 hours ago, jajiboge said:

some say mage was too overpower,but what is the overpower power about mage? its because they have supertank power and crazy DOT damage?every job has their own abilities and also rogue and fighter has their own abilities rogue has crit fighter has high PA that could blow away every job he facing.the one who said that mage is overpower is because is just hate mage so much or always keep fail win battling againts mage,lol im not racist but every job in has their own abilities that what my opinion and thats why im disagree with this idk for other player lol

every job have their own is that true, my job is TM, and when i use "my abbilities=foil" everyone will be crazy XD "use foil lol" "wtf foil" "No foil No win". after decrase damage still like that, omg. 

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8 hours ago, Orange said:

Cardinal is not a damager, the only reason cardinal is the most used class is because of that one skill, but cardinal has all the heals and all the buffs, you cannot have it all, cardinal is a healer and support job, not damage job. We will fix and make the other mage jobs more fun and useful so that there are true damage mage jobs like grandmaster and soul arbiter, which are the actual damage jobs.

Beside has all the heals and all the buffs, cardinal has skill that dealt a big damage, like Turn Undead with 1653 damage (compare with SA's Holy Justice, it's only 1082 damage. Compare with Grand Master's Greater Thunder, it's only 1605 damage with 9.3sec?), also Shield of Justice that with high damage, it's 642 damage with stun effect, area, and 15m range. That makes cardinal too over power.

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11 minutes ago, chethe said:

Beside has all the heals and all the buffs, cardinal has skill that dealt a big damage, like Turn Undead with 1653 damage (compare with SA's Holy Justice, it's only 1082 damage. Compare with Grand Master's Greater Thunder, it's only 1605 damage with 9.3sec?), also Shield of Justice that with high damage, it's 642 damage with stun effect, area, and 15m range. That makes cardinal too over power.

I think you forgetting that every job path that atleast pick bishop has heals and buffs and unturn dead which is holy justice is still better than it anyway and not to mention you need high magic attack to do any damage with mage in general in pvp. and when I say high im talking 30-40k m atk thats a value of 10-15k phy atk. now if they revert magic attack damage to its normal state then sure nerf dot if you want.

 

like before patch max I did with 7k magic attack is 700-1.1k[sometimes even 400] around my level. and my fighter before patch with 7k phy attack he does 10ks and sometimes 13k. sounds unreal but make a mage you'll see the damage gap between phy and magic without edits..

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I like the idea of the update, but ultimately things are getting a bit out of hand. I feel like 1 hitting people should be possible, but not easily. Luna isn't exactly the type of game where a "long battle" is exciting, unless it's like two mages going at it, or two tankers, or a mage vs tank. Other than that, Destroyers, 2h Magnus, Blade Takers, etc etc should have the ability to 1 hit people. However, I do agree the damage should not be as insane as it has been. 

I do agree that critical damage was overpowered, however, it should not have been nerfed as much as it has. A fully edited friend of mine, has 15k p.atk (which is nearly impossible to obtain as a normal player, so imagine how low their damage must be...) and still only cranked out around 2k-2k - 3k-3k sonic booms to a non-edited Cardinal. While the idea is splendid, the power of the nerf was ridiculous.  I can understand you not wanting majority of the people in one server all going the same class, but honestly, as long as there are classes with bugged skills (Sniper, Entrapper, etc) it will remain that way. As long as level 150 is the cap level, and as long as the monsters are still the same, I don't really see the point in changing too much around either.

Axes are not useful again, and likely never will be, unless they're able to use sleep/sonic boom again. And to be honest, I really feel like those things were better left alone. (Shield Boomerang with dual wield, etc.) The major issue as someone stated above, is not only the crit damage ratio, but the stun lock as well. No matter what job a person chooses, we all fight the same way. Stun lock, foil, freeze, or paralyze, until you die. It would be nice, if somehow the stuns were cut in half, or the same stun couldn't work back to back.

As far as Cardinals, I completely and respectively disagree with the notion that they're full support jobs. While I do agree that they should be nerfed, completely taking away their ability to fight is downright saddening, and yes my main character is a level 140 Cardinal (Amiral.) It's actually quite frustrating to get to level 140, it literally takes 3 weeks at the bare minimum, which is a lot of time. And I don't mean from level 1, I mean from level 130-133. 

 

With that being said, I also second the other person in this thread that said it's bad that so many changes happen suddenly, because we're forced to always buy reskills/restats instead of them being included with every patch. I love Celestia Luna Online, which is why I've played before the rebirth, and I'm still here after, and I don't plan on leaving, (even after I've got that OP computer to play whatever game I want.) But that's another reason why I"d love to see it at it's best, and at the moment it's no where near there. 

But I like the big slap in the face to all the people who said CL would never update. hahaha. 

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What if you focus that stat on what purpose of it.

Ex. Str - Phy.attacks 

Dex - Crit rate, eva, strike, small portion of crit damage

Vit - Hp, hpreg., phy.def 

Int - magical attack

Wis - mp, mpreg. M.def, crit rate small portion of m.critdamage.

And you already adjusted the crit damage of fighter and rouges to 150% till 250% includes all buffs passives and philos. 

Why dont you put also crit bracket for mages . which i mentions that wis gives crit rate and damage so that they dont depend on fortunate magic and twinkling chuchu. 

Also put limit like 150-250% m.crit damage . right? which i suggest to put crit damage to wis stat so that WIS will be helpfull for those crit mages esp. Soul Arbiters or any crit mages. So that even mage think for their stat and make strategies for their build .

 

P.S sorry for bad english :c

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5 minutes ago, Shahed said:

What if you focus that stat on what purpose of it.

Ex. Str - Phy.attacks 

Dex - Crit rate, eva, strike, small portion of crit damage

Vit - Hp, hpreg., phy.def 

Int - magical attack

Wis - mp, mpreg. M.def, crit rate small portion of m.critdamage.

And you already adjusted the crit damage of fighter and rouges to 150% till 250% includes all buffs passives and philos. 

Why dont you put also crit bracket for mages . which i mentions that wis gives crit rate and damage so that they dont depend on fortunate magic and twinkling chuchu. 

Also put limit like 150-250% m.crit damage . right? which i suggest to put crit damage to wis stat so that WIS will be helpfull for those crit mages esp. Soul Arbiters or any crit mages. So that even mage think for their stat and make strategies for their build .

 

P.S sorry for bad english :c

I think Wisdom giving magical crit rate is a horrible idea, because any mage that has the belt of wisdom already crits just about every time they hit you, so I don't think mages need any help in the magical crit department. I also don't think mages should have their crit damage nerfed, or limited, because magical attack in itself is already nerfed. In Gpotato, just 6-8k magical attack was extremely high, but here it's completely useless unless it's 13k or higher. And in many situations, even 13-16k Magical attack is not enough if a player just enchants all their accessories to +12, and use wisdom buffs from their rune master, even 17k magical attack is rendered useless. 

 

Don't even get me started on how bad it'll be if the DoTs of mages get nerfed. (Which I do agree should happen.)

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7 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

I think Wisdom giving magical crit rate is a horrible idea, because any mage that has the belt of wisdom already crits just about every time they hit you, so I don't think mages need any help in the magical crit department. I also don't think mages should have their crit damage nerfed, or limited, because magical attack in itself is already nerfed. In Gpotato, just 6-8k magical attack was extremely high, but here it's completely useless unless it's 13k or higher. 

agree, everyone speaking on behalf of their classes lols defend defend, that guy must be a fighter tanker but never any mage, admins must really think this one thoroughly

people should appreciate changes, and work a way around, challenges are fun

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

I think Wisdom giving magical crit rate is a horrible idea, because any mage that has the belt of wisdom already crits just about every time they hit you, so I don't think mages need any help in the magical crit department. I also don't think mages should have their crit damage nerfed, or limited, because magical attack in itself is already nerfed. In Gpotato, just 6-8k magical attack was extremely high, but here it's completely useless unless it's 13k

2 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

I think Wisdom giving magical crit rate is a horrible idea, because any mage that has the belt of wisdom already crits just about every time they hit you, so I don't think mages need any help in the magical crit department. I also don't think mages should have their crit damage nerfed, or limited, because magical attack in itself is already nerfed. In Gpotato, just 6-8k magical attack was extremely high, but here it's completely useless unless it's 13k or higher. 

Thats true but Belt of wisdom is very expensive. And most of mage player takes monk inqui path for crit rate and damage.

And what is the purpose of wisdome and m.def if you take high output magic damage

 Thats why i suggest to make m.crit.damage cap. So that even fighters and rouge would not be one hit by criticals. 

Dont think that im opposing hahaha , just a suggestion :D

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The Only happy to the update is the normal char i think >.< 

not pd player for me my oppion is if you want balancing in the

1st place you should dnt have a PD players.

so the damages and stat will balance 

 

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wouldnt mind dot nerf if magic attack was actually value same as phy attack but its not its actually junk right now lol 

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10 minutes ago, johnpuarossi said:

everyone speaking on behalf of their classes lols defend defend, that guy must be a fighter tanker but never any mage, admins must really thought this one thoroughly

people should appreciate changes, and work a way around, challenges are fun

I speak on behalf of all classes, because I play all of them. There's nothing I dislike more than a one-sided game. My main character IS a mage, and I know for a fact when I used a Belt of Wisdom (as well as my mage friends and mage enemies,) they crit almost every single time. Fighters and tankers are the ones suffering the most at the moment, mages don't have any disadvantages currently. Heck, you don't even have to try hard to be a good mage. Just get to level 133, max out your DoT skills, and bam. You can dish out damage to anyone.

 

Which is sad because a level 105 Cardinal/Necro can kill a level 150 on pure DoT, meanwhile a fighter/rogue does 0 damage to a level 150. Let's be honest here.

 

"Thats true but Belt of wisdom is very expensive. And most of mage player takes monk inqui path for crit rate and damage.

And what is the purpose of wisdome and m.def if you take high output magic damage

 Thats why i suggest to make m.crit.damage cap. So that even fighters and rouge would not be one hit by criticals. 

Dont think that im opposing hahaha , just a suggestion :D"

 

That's the way it should be. Mages have the easiest time in battles because they have a skill that damages everyone regardless of level and/or stats. Belt Of Wisdom SHOULD be expensive, because it's a Private donation item. Just like a Blade of the Sun, or a Jade Dragon's Claw. Being an overpowered player, or a very strong player should cost you some gold, otherwise the game would be very unbalanced anyway. Like a wise man once said, "it costs to be the boss."

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

I speak on behalf of all classes, because I play all of them. There's nothing I dislike more than a one-sided game. My main character IS a mage, and I know for a fact when I used a Belt of Wisdom (as well as my mage friends and mage enemies,) they crit almost every single time. Fighters and tankers are the ones suffering the most at the moment, mages don't have any disadvantages currently. Heck, you don't even have to try hard to be a good mage. Just get to level 133, max out your DoT skills, and bam. You can dish out damage to anyone.

 

Which is sad because a level 105 Cardinal/Necro can kill a level 150 on pure DoT, meanwhile a fighter/rogue does 0 damage to a level 150. Let's be honest here..

I was talking about the guy before you 

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3 minutes ago, johnpuarossi said:

everyone speaking on behalf of their classes lols defend defend, that guy must be a fighter tanker but never any mage, admins must really think this one thoroughly

people should appreciate changes, and work a way around, challenges are fun

Im also a mage hahaja

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@Orange sir does wis affects magic crit rate now and when will magic crit rate will show up in character information(c)? 

And last does wis affects healing to?

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2 minutes ago, johnpuarossi said:

I was talking about the guy before you 

you mean shahed? if it was directed to me I currently main no job/class just bouncing threw them for now..

 

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7 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

I speak on behalf of all classes, because I play all of them. There's nothing I dislike more than a one-sided game. My main character IS a mage, and I know for a fact when I used a Belt of Wisdom (as well as my mage friends and mage enemies,) they crit almost every single time. Fighters and tankers are the ones suffering the most at the moment, mages don't have any disadvantages currently. Heck, you don't even have to try hard to be a good mage. Just get to level 133, max out your DoT skills, and bam. You can dish out damage to anyone.

 

Which is sad because a level 105 Cardinal/Necro can kill a level 150 on pure DoT, meanwhile a fighter/rogue does 0 damage to a level 150. Let's be honest here.

 

"Thats true but Belt of wisdom is very expensive. And most of mage player takes monk inqui path for crit rate and damage.

And what is the purpose of wisdome and m.def if you take high output magic damage

 Thats why i suggest to make m.crit.damage cap. So that even fighters and rouge would not be one hit by criticals. 

Dont think that im opposing hahaha , just a suggestion :D"

 

That's the way it should be. Mages have the easiest time in battles because they have a skill that damages everyone regardless of level and/or stats. Belt Of Wisdom SHOULD be expensive, because it's a Private donation item. Just like a Blade of the Sun, or a Jade Dragon's Claw. Being an overpowered player, or a very strong player should cost you some gold, otherwise the game would be very unbalanced anyway.

All true 

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2 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

I speak on behalf of all classes, because I play all of them. There's nothing I dislike more than a one-sided game. My main character IS a mage, and I know for a fact when I used a Belt of Wisdom (as well as my mage friends and mage enemies,) they crit almost every single time. Fighters and tankers are the ones suffering the most at the moment, mages don't have any disadvantages currently. Heck, you don't even have to try hard to be a good mage. Just get to level 133, max out your DoT skills, and bam. You can dish out damage to anyone.

 

Which is sad because a level 105 Cardinal/Necro can kill a level 150 on pure DoT, meanwhile a fighter/rogue does 0 damage to a level 150. Let's be honest here..

so you mean all DOT player is not balance that can kill even lvl 150 player... and if u turn it to int type it make balance thats ure vision there? all mage need to be have 20k magic attack to kill wew

 

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I have also played CL for many years, and I main a high level Paladin.

I don't think it was bad to visit critical damage on dexterity, because it is definitely unbalanced. I think a better approach would have been to reduce the critical damage instead of removing it altogether, because nearly every player using a physical attacking class was bound to panic. Personally, I would like to see the damage reduced instead of completely removed or fully restored in the next patch.


The critical damage balancing is a good idea, and block should be visited, as well as mage classes (in regards to magical attack damage being outclassed by DoT mages and pre-patch physical attack damage in general).


PS: Buffing vitality is a bad idea. There are characters that could tank the high damage before this recent critical damage patch, so buffing vitality would just make them even more untouchable. Just my 2 cents.

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i think to many players is disappointed now specially pd players. :33::33:

 

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