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Stat & Class Balancing


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1 minute ago, Retaliate said:

too late to nerf edits, players that went edit will just quit if they see their edits stats decrease or vanish. even if you gave them pd items since all they wanted was high hp or dmg or def etc and not pd item but yeah..maybe make a poll see what they think but I think most wont be happy. just saying

I myself an edit, true most won't  be happy, but that most are just most edits lol, like 10% of th population, like full on edit

yea poll is good, just as long as admins still has the final say

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Just now, johnpuarossi said:

I myself an edit, true most won't  be happy, but that most are just most edits lol, like 10% of th population, like full on edit

yea poll is good, just as long as admins still has the final say

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Majority of the population is unedited anyway, and it's always majority rules. What's best for majority is what's best for the server. If all the edited players quit, and the unedited players stayed, nothing would happen. But if all the edited players stayed, and all the unedited players quit, CL would only have like 10 people online everyday. And then the edited players would not play either, because all their unedited friends quit.  And vice versa, the edited players won't go anywhere if all of their unedited friends are still here.

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@everyone saying to get rid of edits.

Private Donation is hella expensive and removing tens of thousands of dollars worth of edits from the game (probably more) is a terrible idea. It may be a good idea to make more events and in game features that don't allow edits (Like the PvP Tournaments), but removing them altogether is a terrible idea.

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1 minute ago, Heishin said:

@everyone saying to get rid of edits.

Private Donation is hella expensive and removing tens of thousands of dollars worth of edits from the game (probably more) is a terrible idea. It may be a good idea to make more events and in game features that don't allow edits (Like the PvP Tournaments), but removing them altogether is a terrible idea.

We are not saying remove the edits, but nerfing them. For example, instead of 200 stat edits, they could be 100. They will still be overpowered to the normal players, and still be evenly matched with each other, but the normal players will have a better chance at facing them if they aren't boasting 25k p.atk, 41k m.atk, or 25k p.def and 120k hp lol. The edits are the most broken thing about the game, and that's coming from someone who borrows and uses edits all the time. 

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2 hours ago, Retaliate said:

I think you forgetting that every job path that atleast pick bishop has heals and buffs and unturn dead which is holy justice is still better than it anyway and not to mention you need high magic attack to do any damage with mage in general in pvp. and when I say high im talking 30-40k m atk thats a value of 10-15k phy atk. now if they revert magic attack damage to its normal state then sure nerf dot if you want.

 

like before patch max I did with 7k magic attack is 700-1.1k[sometimes even 400] around my level. and my fighter before patch with 7k phy attack he does 10ks and sometimes 13k. sounds unreal but make a mage you'll see the damage gap between phy and magic without edits..

Yes, bishop has heals and buffs, but cardi has the best of them.

I dont compare Mag atk with Phy atk, but, cardinal with other mages job. Since cardinal is not a damager, but it has a bigger damage skill compare to other mages job.

The point is, cardinal is too over power because it has the best buffs and heals, the best damage skill, also has good DoT skill.

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2 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

"I think you only want dots nerf to that extend because you as an edit tank only cardinal can beat you" 

Dude, you must have missed the part where I said Amiral IS my main character, and she IS a level 140 Cardinal. I never said mages was "almighty" I said they have an unfair advantage, and I'm not talking about edits, I'm talking about NORMAL PLAYERS. A normal mage at 105 is easily much more dangerous than any 105 fighter or rogue, and they have a skill that does big damage even if they have absolutely no armor on, and it only gets worse at they get to higher levels, which is UNFAIR, because fighters and rogues don't have any ability that does a set amount of damage like Holy Taker or Venom Cloud.

Also, I have played Luna Plus before, multiple variations of it, and in the Luna Plus games I've played, neither of them are like this game. Not even close. Most Luna Plus servers do not even have rune impact, and if they do, it is not non-miss skill. Luna plus is MUCH different from this server, so trying to compare to two is really bad on your part. This game is headed no where near luna plus, I have not seen a single update here that replicates Luna Plus features.

"you claim rogue and fighter don't have that ability but are you sure your a tank? both rogue and fighter specially magnus and tm can stun lock you and dot you till your dead" Dude that applies to every class. And you are completely contradicting your own argument, because the very thing you're talking about, is all DoT mages do. Stun lock you until you're dead. And they kill you with a skill that has like a 1% chance of failing, and does the same damage every single time. Max level of holy taker does 10k, each time it's cast. Venom Cloud does 12k each time it's cast. And normal players don't have the damage to 1 hit them because normal damage is much different from edits, and that's why it needs to be nerfed.

Also, I already complained about the stun lock in many of my other posts, so do not try and pretend like I'm the one being oblivious here. "a magnus alone with just rune impact can keep you stun till you die even if hes hitting 300 damage" this is by the far the most untrue thing you have said in your entire comment. Rune impact does not even stun that much as it only has 70% stun rate, furthermore, no one gets rune impacted until they die. Because if it's in a war, someone is easily going to attack you while you're busy trying to shoot 500 rune impacts. And if it's in a duel, if you're doing anything under 2k, your enemy will not die before the battle is over depending on who you're fighting, and rune impact has a decent sized cooldown. Whereas mage's holy taker coolsdown rather quickly. 

I'm not arguing for the sake of a mage being rendered useless, I"m just saying it takes no effort to be a mage, and that in itself should be changed, the only reason you may say otherwise is because YOU'RE a mage. But me on the other hand, I have played  this game for a total of just about 6-7 years (including the time before they rebirthed,) and I've had plenty of experience in all classes, so I'm not biased by any means. I don't have a favorite class.

This is also untrue, a lot of edited players will be upset, but a lot of them will not quit. And even if they did, there are many more normal players than there are edited players, keeping majority happy is usually the key for most businesses. CL would not die suddenly because a few edited players got butthurt. 

I would say the luna that carries theses plans but i rather not get ban over advertsing but just know the current luna plus has theses ideas already ingame and that server lost its water noone plays it its dry. aka dot depend on m atk phy atk, aka nerf dmg to all, high hp to vit, theres no contradiction this is from my experience as once a cardinal ''stun lock by cardi'' what? lol I dont think 2 low stuns[together 4secs] with high cd[7.2 secs] HT cd[9.2secs...yeah man ''quick'' lol....] is consider stunlock dont even say ''they can sleep you'' when you said it takes no effort. you need some real good timing to sleep them before ht fully wears off cause by time it does they would been already got close and stunlock you[unless 0 ms]. also my destroyer can easy stunlock any mage[if not edit and same level or close around] and kill them so the only thing holds a phy char back would be level gap. and im not a edit user and how is cardinal your ''main'' when all you use it for is to support reforget?how is a char u use to support reforget consider your main? wow ok anyways, why you bringing up war? war is based on TEAM PLAY. Im talking 1on1 pvp not duels who cares about duels? everyone is baised at some point and as I stated im not a mage main I use mage yeah I use fighter too and none are my main specially with theses updates that MIGHT happen. also rune impact may say 70% but we all know its success rate is 99% 1% chance of fail from my experience, with this skill max or near max not lv1. but man you really making mage sound like some untouchable char basically a super saiyan that need to become a krillin and every other char is krillin. either way only reason I defend mage cause 2 reasons my experience and many people I know that will quit if this nerf happens. the nerf wont effect me if I DID main a mage I would simply just switch to fighter or rogue since they'll actually be able to do dmg without edits and kill everything. while mage? be a free kill lol 5-6k hp mages with 20k m atk easy targets unless edit. as for edits more easy fix is allow them be sellable for gold. maybe then we normals can become super saiyans too for once. by this I just mean you cant be perm ban for this..but then again players will want like 500b even though max it should be is 150-200b or so.

 

 

also chethe lol what? I think you fight too many edit cardis. so what im seeing is from new posts ''make cardinal into rune master'' I mean go for it? I guess. 

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  • Administrator

I mentioned previously we were going to revert the changes.

Instead we will have a special map where we can change stats and it will only count for that map, that is where we will test how pvp and pve feels with different stat changes while the rest of the maps will have the normal stat set up. We will get player feedback from there only until we feel we are in a place to patch the other maps.

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3 minutes ago, Orange said:

I mentioned previously we were going to revert the changes.

Instead we will have a special map where we can change stats and it will only count for that map, that is where we will test how pvp and pve feels with different stat changes while the rest of the maps will have the normal stat set up. We will get player feedback from there only until we feel we are in a place to patch the other maps.

thats a smart idea to be honest lol. mostly cause we get to test it and not just see a paper about it since it may be better than how it sounds..I like this 1 lol

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1 minute ago, Orange said:

I mentioned previously we were going to revert the changes.

Instead we will have a special map where we can change stats and it will only count for that map, that is where we will test how pvp and pve feels with different stat changes while the rest of the maps will have the normal stat set up. We will get player feedback from there only until we feel we are in a place to patch the other maps.

Nice one

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55 minutes ago, Allwayspossible said:

We are not saying remove the edits, but nerfing them. For example, instead of 200 stat edits, they could be 100. They will still be overpowered to the normal players, and still be evenly matched with each other, but the normal players will have a better chance at facing them if they aren't boasting 25k p.atk, 41k m.atk, or 25k p.def and 120k hp lol. The edits are the most broken thing about the game, and that's coming from someone who borrows and uses edits all the time. 

Even if you /only/ cut edits in half you'd still be removing the benefits of tens of thousands of dollars worth of donated dollars from players.

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20 minutes ago, Retaliate said:

I would say the luna that carries theses plans but i rather not get ban over advertsing but just know the current luna plus has theses ideas already ingame and that server lost its water noone plays it its dry. aka dot depend on m atk phy atk, aka nerf dmg to all, high hp to vit, theres no contradiction this is from my experience as once a cardinal ''stun lock by cardi'' what? lol I dont think 2 low stuns[together 4secs] with high cd[7.2 secs] HT cd[9.2secs...yeah man ''quick'' lol....] is consider stunlock dont even say ''they can sleep you'' when you said it takes no effort. you need some real good timing to sleep them before ht fully wears off cause by time it does they would been already got close and stunlock you[unless 0 ms]. also my destroyer can easy stunlock any mage[if not edit and same level or close around] and kill them so the only thing holds a phy char back would be level gap. and im not a edit user and how is cardinal your ''main'' when all you use it for is to support reforget?how is a char u use to support reforget consider your main? wow ok anyways, why you bringing up war? war is based on TEAM PLAY. Im talking 1on1 pvp not duels who cares about duels? everyone is baised at some point and as I stated im not a mage main I use mage yeah I use fighter too and none are my main specially with theses updates that MIGHT happen. also rune impact may say 70% but we all know its success rate is 99% 1% chance of fail from my experience, with this skill max or near max not lv1. but man you really making mage sound like some untouchable char basically a super saiyan that need to become a krillin and every other char is krillin. either way only reason I defend mage cause 2 reasons my experience and many people I know that will quit if this nerf happens. the nerf wont effect me if I DID main a mage I would simply just switch to fighter or rogue since they'll actually be able to do dmg without edits and kill everything. while mage? be a free kill lol 5-6k hp mages with 20k m atk easy targets unless edit. as for edits more easy fix is allow them be sellable for gold. maybe then we normals can become super saiyans too for once. by this I just mean you cant be perm ban for this..but then again players will want like 500b even though max it should be is 150-200b or so.

 

 

also chethe lol what? I think you fight too many edit cardis. so what im seeing is from new posts ''make cardinal into rune master'' I mean go for it? I guess. 

Dude, can please separate your paragraphs when you're typing, you made this into one huge sentence and it is really hard to read and keep track of everything you're saying.

 

Do not tell me cardinals cannot stunlock, because it happens all the time. I'm not talking about sleeping anyone, I don't know where you are stationed in the world, but I am in the USA, and because of that, this "you need some good timing to sleep them before ht fully wears off by time it does they would already got close and stunlock" that's not true for me, because my connection is much better than those who are not that close to the server as I am. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

"my destroyer can easily stunlock any mage" - If that's the case, we can test this ourselves. Just tell me your in game name, I'll get Amiral, and we can test it. 

"How is that your main when you use it support reforget?" I only use Reforget in Guild War with KR, KR is the biggest guild/union in the entire server. When I am going to war against them, it is all about what character gets the job done. Amiral is a mage, and she was my first character and first level 140 character. Reforget was not normally leveled, he was PDed to 150, and I do not use him for anything other than wars against KR. Therefore, he is not my main. And Amiral is a mage, so no duh, of course I"m gonna use her to heal Reforget. Just like everyone uses their mages to heal their other characters. That was really an irrelevant argument on your part.

"Rune impact may say 70% but we all know its 99%" This is incorrect. You cannot decide for yourself what percentage of success rate a skill has, as you are not a GM, and you don't get to make that decision. It varies from person to person, and my rune impact fails a LOT, if it were 99%, it would not fail nearly as much as it does. Do not try to fabricate, in an attempt to support your claims. 

"Man you really making mage sound like some untouchable char" No...you are just ignoring my point. The point of this entire thread, is to talk about balancing things, and I feel like one of the things that would help balance the game, is if you nerf the skills that do 10k-12k automatic damage, no matter what equips you have. Mages should be pushing for magical attack to deal damage, not just make a cardinal and have instantaneous damage to everyone. It is unfair to the classes that actually have to work to deal damage to the mage. 

"why you bringing up war? war is based on TEAM PLAY. Im talking 1on1 pvp not duels who cares about duels?" You clearly don't know what it's like to be in charge of anything if you honestly just asked me those questions. When you are talking about changing something that EVERYONE uses, you have to take into account ALL factors, not just 1. You cannot just think about "1 on 1" because that supports only your argument, and no one elses'. You cannot fix a discussion to fit your agenda. You must take into account every obstacle. Not just 1on1, but wars and duels as well.

Also, I brought up war and duels because you were talking about how someone can "kill you with rune impact if they use it over and over and it only has to do 300 damage" when that is a complete ignorant thing to say, because that literally never ever happens. There has never been a situation where someone rune impacts you 500 times just to kill you. Meanwhile, Cardinals, and Necros, are using a broken DoT skill (which requires absolutely no effort, money, or anything to use,) every single day. And since you like talking about other servers so much, don't forget that Gpotato and other servers purposely lowered the damage of this skill in PVP. The most it could do in pvp is 749 per second. Heck, EVEN IN THE OLD CELESTIA LUNA, BEFORE THE REBIRTH, HOLY TAKER WAS NERFED, AND COULD ONLY DO 749 DAMAGE PER SECOND. LOL

But I guess you wouldn't know that, since you haven't played as long as I have.

"when you say it takes no effort" Yes, when I say it takes "no effort" I'm saying you don't have to have any items on to deal damage with Holy Taker or Venom cloud, if you even try to argue that, you're just wasting my time. :/ 

@Heishin -  "Even if you /only/ cut edits in half you'd still be removing the benefits of tens of thousands of dollars worth of donated dollars from players. " Well if you want to get technical, they've already done that by remove evasion/strike edits, and making axes completely useless. You have to make sacrifices and do what's best for the game, the PDers will always have access to things that the normal players do not, so even if they cut them, the PDers would receive some form of accurate and efficient reimbursement be that in items, gold or whatever. 

Also, keep in mind that Donating is not the same as purchasing. Donation is something you do out of your heart, CL just happens to give you stuff back for Donating, but they are not obligated to under the correct use of "donation." When you make the choice to pay for something, be sure you know all the stipulations, and always think about the things that could happen in the future before you do so. 

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

Dude, can please separate your paragraphs when you're typing, you made this into one huge sentence and it is really hard to read and keep track of everything you're saying.

 

Do not tell me cardinals cannot stunlock, because it happens all the time. I'm not talking about sleeping anyone, I don't know where you are stationed in the world, but I am in the USA, and because of that, this "you need some good timing to sleep them before ht fully wears off by time it does they would already got close and stunlock" that's not true for me, because my connection is much better than those who are not that close to the server as I am. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

"my destroyer can easily stunlock any mage" - If that's the case, we can test this ourselves. Just tell me your in game name, I'll get Amiral, and we can test it. 

"How is that your main when you use it support reforget?" I only use Reforget in Guild War with KR, KR is the biggest guild/union in the entire server. When I am going to war against them, it is all about what character gets the job done. Amiral is a mage, and she was my first character and first level 140 character. Reforget was not normally leveled, he was PDed to 150, and I do not use him for anything other than wars against KR. Therefore, he is not my main. And Amiral is a mage, so no duh, of course I"m gonna use her to heal Reforget. Just like everyone uses their mages to heal their other characters. That was really an irrelevant argument on your part.

"Rune impact may say 70% but we all know its 99%" This is incorrect. You cannot decide for yourself what percentage of success rate a skill has, as you are not a GM, and you don't get to make that decision. It varies from person to person, and my rune impact fails a LOT, if it were 99%, it would not fail nearly as much as it does. Do not try to fabricate, in an attempt to support your claims. 

"Man you really making mage sound like some untouchable char" No...you are just ignoring my point. The point of this entire thread, is to talk about balancing things, and I feel like one of the things that would help balance the game, is if you nerf the skills that do 10k-12k automatic damage, no matter what equips you have. Mages should be pushing for magical attack to deal damage, not just make a cardinal and have instantaneous damage to everyone. It is unfair to the classes that actually have to work to deal damage to the mage. 

"why you bringing up war? war is based on TEAM PLAY. Im talking 1on1 pvp not duels who cares about duels?" You clearly don't know what it's like to be in charge of anything if you honestly just asked me those questions. When you are talking about changing something that EVERYONE uses, you have to take into account ALL factors, not just 1. You cannot just think about "1 on 1" because that supports only your argument, and no one elses'. You cannot fix a discussion to fit your agenda. You must take into account every obstacle. Not just 1on1, but wars and duels as well.

Also, I brought up war and duels because you were talking about how someone can "kill you with rune impact if they use it over and over and it only has to do 300 damage" when that is a complete ignorant thing to say, because that literally never ever happens. There has never been a situation where someone rune impacts you 500 times just to kill you. Meanwhile, Cardinals, and Necros, are using a broken DoT skill (which requires absolutely no effort, money, or anything to use,) every single day. And since you like talking about other servers so much, don't forget that Gpotato and other servers purposely lowered the damage of this skill in PVP. The most it could do in pvp is 749 per second. Heck, EVEN IN THE OLD CELESTIA LUNA, BEFORE THE REBIRTH, HOLY TAKER WAS NERFED, AND COULD ONLY DO 749 DAMAGE PER SECOND. LOL

But I guess you wouldn't know that, since you haven't played as long as I have.

"when you say it takes no effort" Yes, when I say it takes "no effort" I'm saying you don't have to have any items on to deal damage with Holy Taker or Venom cloud, if you even try to argue that, you're just wasting my time. :/ 

topic already over orange already said whats gonna happen. and we all got different experience so i'll never agree with you vice versa. and if you cant read what I type then dont reply to it? simple man. but I'll reply to 1 thing I readed abit ''war'' you didnt read I guess answer here [ its team play] that means its not just your character its more than 1.

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5 minutes ago, Retaliate said:

topic already over orange already said whats gonna happen. and we all got different experience so i'll never agree with you vice versa. and if you cant read what I type then dont reply to it? simple man. but I'll reply to 1 thing I readed abit ''war'' you didnt read I guess answer here [ its team play] that means its not just your character its more than 1.

Orange said that earlier, which means she said it a second time, so you're just using that as a card to get out of the debate, but okay. Also, war is still pvp, and still counts. you have to look at all sides. Regardless of how you feel about it. And also, I never said I couldn't read what you said, I said it was "hard" to understand you because you type all your stuff in one big sentence. That is poor formatting and I hope you don't type like that when making resumes for your job applications. :/ 

Also, no one is talking about 1 on 1, only you. Orange did not make the thread about 1 on 1, it's about pvp, war, and all. So please stop with that. lol

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

Oranye mengatakan bahwa sebelumnya, yang berarti dia mengatakan itu untuk kedua kalinya, sehingga Anda hanya menggunakan itu sebagai kartu untuk keluar dari perdebatan, tapi oke. Juga, perang masih PVP, dan masih menghitung. Anda harus melihat semua sisi. Terlepas dari bagaimana Anda merasa tentang hal itu. Dan juga, saya tidak pernah mengatakan saya tidak bisa membaca apa yang Anda katakan, saya katakan itu "sulit" untuk memahami Anda karena Anda mengetik semua barang-barang Anda dalam satu kalimat besar. Itulah format miskin dan saya harap Anda tidak mengetik seperti itu ketika membuat resume untuk aplikasi pekerjaan Anda. : / 

Juga, tidak ada yang berbicara tentang 1 on 1, hanya Anda. Jeruk tidak membuat thread tentang 1 on 1, ini tentang PVP, perang, dan semua. Jadi tolong berhenti dengan itu. lol

True LOL

 

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

Orange said that earlier, which means she said it a second time, so you're just using that as a card to get out of the debate, but okay. Also, war is still pvp, and still counts. you have to look at all sides. Regardless of how you feel about it. And also, I never said I couldn't read what you said, I said it was "hard" to understand you because you type all your stuff in one big sentence. That is poor formatting and I hope you don't type like that when making resumes for your job applications. :/ 

Also, no one is talking about 1 on 1, only you. Orange did not make the thread about 1 on 1, it's about pvp, war, and all. So please stop with that. lol

actually she said it different now so its not the same that we'll actually be able to test it US THE PLAYERS normally its just the gms that get to test it not the players. so go from the game to talking about how I type how immature are you?

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1 minute ago, Retaliate said:

actually she said it different now so its not the same that we'll actually be able to test it US THE PLAYERS normally its just the gms that get to test it not the players. so go from the game to talking about how I type how immature are you?

There is nothing immature about criticizing your typing, I'm honestly just trying to help you so that no one says it to you again later. If we are going to have a debate, I want to help you understand that you could put some spaces in between your big sentences so people can read them better. What I said about your typing is the same thing anyone else from the U.S would say.

Also, of course she did not say it EXACTLY the same, but the idea was the same.She did not change the entire concept of her message, otherwise it technically would not be the same.

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1 minute ago, Allwayspossible said:

There is nothing immature about criticizing your typing, I'm honestly just trying to help you so that no one says it to you again later. If we are going to have a debate, I want to help you understand that you could put some spaces in between your big sentences so people can read them better. What I said about your typing is the same thing anyone else from the U.S would say.

Also, of course she did not say it EXACTLY the same, but the idea was the same.She did not change the entire concept of her message, otherwise it technically would not be the same.

criticzing is helping so..insulting is helping cool idk who raise you but they did a poor job..but its cool i know you just mad cause kr destroys your guild and cause I dont want to bother chatting about something that may never happen due to tests seem rather pointless and stupid to go on about it cause also as stated I'm never agreeing with you never so its a pointless cycle if you into that good for you? if it makes u feel better i can type like this insteadanddonospacesandmakeitharderforyoubruh

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1 minute ago, Retaliate said:

criticzing is helping so..insulting is helping cool idk who raise you but they did a poor job..but its cool i know you just mad cause kr destroys your guild and cause I dont want to bother chatting about something that may never happen due to tests seem rather pointless and stupid to go on about it cause also as stated I'm never agreeing with you never so its a pointless cycle if you into that good for you? if it makes u feel better i can type like this insteadanddonospacesandmakeitharderforyoubruh

Well, the people that raised me at least taught me how to type...unlike you o.o...maybe your parents did a bad job at raising you, since you can't even hold a good debate without being offended. 

Also, KR loses wars to us just like we lose wars to them. if you don't believe me you can go to youtube and type in "CelestiaTester" and you can see all the wars I recorded. KR lost every single one.

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  • Administrator

This topic is now locked because it derailed into a personal battle. Once the new map is open there will be a fresh topic to discuss the changes available there.

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