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Excuseme Staff celestic luna, all player.. I want asking for How About Economy in celestia luna Because i not know the price some players have been deceived by other player, the price is too high. So, how are we going to fix this? 

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Thank you so much.

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Economy is player driven, there is nothing to fix. Ask other players, check player stores to get an idea of a price for the item you want to buy/sell.

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It's hard to implement macroeconomic theory in the current game situation, according to the theory, there are two main way to handle the inflation problem, can be fiscal policy which implement taxes, and monetary policy on how control the money supply. Fiscal policy cannot be implemented in the game, but monetary policy is possible, 

First we need to understand how to measure inflation within the game, one of the easy way is using Consumer Price Index (CPI) . The Consumer Price Index measures the average change in prices over time that consumers pay for a basket of goods and services. By comparing the current basket of good with the past basket of good value, In this game we can use consumable good as the measurement such as Reset Skill, Reset Stat, Pukerian, Exp 100%, HC Fairy wing, etc. So u just need to sum all the value divided by the old value times 100% then u can find the percentage increase on general price level. So in order to reduce the inflation there should be a government intervention on the basket of goods and services.

Possible Actions:

1. The admin could create an event to increase the number of supply of that consumable good, as simple as law of supply of demand, as an example the more reset skill seller in the game, the more competitive it will be, supply > demand, then the value of reskill will be fall. It can be within the games so player can hunt for that item, such as event or increase the number of quest or increase the number of gems promotion

2. The admin could help the newbie directly who need support the most, by giving free consumable goods such as reskill, restat, puke which is tradeable when newbie reach a certain lv, so it will help the newbie to have initial investment within the games, that also can be a new source income for player, and increase retention rate player in order to have that item.

3. The admin could increse the  money supply within the games, It can be by increasing drop rate, or increasing value of certain good to increase player purchasing power, or generate new source of income, can be from farming or fishing, or crafting item, that can be sell with a fair price to npc. However this plan is the opposite of the theory, only able to be implemented if it executed simultenously or after the increasing supply of consumable goods to increase the purchasing power.

4. The admin could update the private donation value based on the current market value, and reduce the minimum order. The current condition player can buy gold directly through PD at a rate of 1.5B gold per $1. Minimum gold purchase is $10. ,The purchasing power will increase by increasing the value of gold by the percentage of CPI increase, or player can buy gold direcly using gems. 

Limitations:

1. It will reduce the source of income for the admin, cause less spending of gems if consumable good is become easier to get within the gates, In order to mitigate this problem, is to increase the number of player so there will be more sales, I have audit the techinical seo and digital footprint of celestia luna, but i found, celestia luna still lack of digital marketing activities, in order to acquire new user. 

2. Its takes time to organize the event and update, since from what i heard, there is small number of staff within this game. In order to solve the problem admin need to hire more staff, or engage more volunteer of good track record player that want to contibute within this game. 

 Theres alot of theory that I want to elaborate here, but let start with this simplest one, maybe ill create more content related to this in the future, lets make this thread as an economic discussion haha

 

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1 hour ago, Sath said:

My major was business economics in university, is hard to implement macroeconomic theory in the current game situation, according to the theory, there are two main way to handle the inflation problem, can be fiscal policy which implement taxes, and monetary policy on how control the money supply. Fiscal policy cannot be implemented in the game, but monetary policy is possible, 

First we need to understand how to measure inflation within the game, one of the easy way is using Consumer Price Index (CPI) . The Consumer Price Index measures the average change in prices over time that consumers pay for a basket of goods and services. By comparing the current basket of good with the past basket of good value, In this game we can use consumable good as the measurement such as Reset Skill, Reset Stat, Pukerian, Exp 100%, HC Fairy wing, etc. So u just need to sum all the value divided by the old value times 100% then u can find the percentage increase on general price level. So in order to reduce the inflation there should be a government intervention on the basket of goods and services.

Possible Actions:

1. The admin could create an event to increase the number of supply of that consumable good, as simple as law of supply of demand, as an example the more reset skill seller in the game, the more competitive it will be, supply > demand, then the value of reskill will be fall. It can be within the games so player can hunt for that item, such as event or increase the number of quest or increase the number of gems promotion

2. The admin could help the newbie directly who need support the most, by giving free consumable goods such as reskill, restat, puke which is tradeable when newbie reach a certain lv, so it will help the newbie to have initial investment within the games, that also can be a new source income for player, and increase retention rate player in order to have that item.

3. The admin can increase the money supply within the games, it can be by increasing drop rate, or increasing value of certain good to increase player purchasing power. Or generate new source of income, can be from farming or fishing, or crafting item, that can be sell with a fair price to npc. But this plan need to be done simultenously with the increasing supply of consumable goods.

4. The admin could update the private donation value based on the current market value, and reduce the minimum order. The current condition player can buy gold directly through PD at a rate of 1.5B gold per $1. Minimum gold purchase is $10. ,The purchasing power will increase by increasing the value of gold by the percentage of CPI increase, or player can buy gold direcly using gems. But this plan need to be done simultenously with the increasing supply of consumable goods.

Limitations:

1. It will reduce the source of income for the admin, cause less spending of gems if consumable good is become easier to get within the gates, In order to mitigate this problem, is to increase the number of player so there will be more sales, I have audit the techinical seo and digital footprint of celestia luna, but i found, celestia luna still lack of digital marketing activities, in order to acquire new user. 

2. Its takes time to organize the event and update, since from what i heard, there is small number of staff within this game. In order to solve the problem admin need to hire more staff, or engage more volunteer of good track record player that want to contibute within this game. 

 Theres alot of theory that I want to elaborate here, but let start with this simplest one, maybe ill create more content related to this in the future, lets make this thread as an economic discussion haha

 

 


The common problem with your suggestion is that the economy is player-driven.


1. Increasing the supply of an item (it has been done before with reskills/restats with the red envelopes) hasn’t changed much as after the event passed reskills went up in price by roughly 1.5b within a few months, sitting at 3-3.5b.

2. Is a decent suggestion, however I would suggest making the scrolls Account Bound. An alternative to this could be something like a questing system that provides gold incentives, and perhaps some custom quest reward. 

3. Making gold easier to access will simply make prices go even higher, as has been seen with the implementation of maps like Sahel and Oasis. Players have consistently increased prices to fit with the drop rates. So once again, the economy is player driven and is being driven higher. 

4. A good alternative to this would be to make gold purchasable outside of the minimum, or at a lesser minimum than the original. But I can’t speak on this. 

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For number 1 actually it was really help, by providing alternative on how people can get reskill, maybe the problem since its not tradable, and the drop rate is too high last year, but this year red envelope is quite hard to get, if the reskill or restat is tradable i guess it will make the reskill cheaper without disturbing the gems spending that much.

For number 2, if it a box reward when player reach a certain lv its still good even its account bounded. The effect will be there but not as effective as make it tradable, but if it tradable the constraint is people will reduce gems consumption to buy reskill.

Yeah on point number 3 that i suggest its contradictive with the theory, actually contractionary monetary policy theory suggest to reduce the money supply, can be by decreasing drop rate, or lower the value accepted by the npc, but its not favourable since It still be one of the main source of income for player, thats why I suggest the opposite to solve the player purchasing power problem, so player will consider reskill is affordable However this plan is the opposite of the theory, only able to be implemented if it executed simultenously or after the increasing supply of consumable goods or it only will worsen the Inflation.Not good for long term policy, but good for short term policy. Maybe drop rate event when there is gems promotion ? 

For number 4, I guess there additional limitation of my suggestion thanks to your comment. It will be good only if gold value earn is less than the value of buying gems. Its provide simple way to get money, but u will earn more if u still buying gems. Thanks for the critics.

Actually there can be other suggestion, but every suggestion have pro and contra., but the main idea is  on "how to give intervention of those consumable goods".

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6 hours ago, Sath said:

It's hard to implement macroeconomic theory in the current game situation, according to the theory, there are two main way to handle the inflation problem, can be fiscal policy which implement taxes, and monetary policy on how control the money supply. Fiscal policy cannot be implemented in the game, but monetary policy is possible, 

First we need to understand how to measure inflation within the game, one of the easy way is using Consumer Price Index (CPI) . The Consumer Price Index measures the average change in prices over time that consumers pay for a basket of goods and services. By comparing the current basket of good with the past basket of good value, In this game we can use consumable good as the measurement such as Reset Skill, Reset Stat, Pukerian, Exp 100%, HC Fairy wing, etc. So u just need to sum all the value divided by the old value times 100% then u can find the percentage increase on general price level. So in order to reduce the inflation there should be a government intervention on the basket of goods and services.

Possible Actions:

1. The admin could create an event to increase the number of supply of that consumable good, as simple as law of supply of demand, as an example the more reset skill seller in the game, the more competitive it will be, supply > demand, then the value of reskill will be fall. It can be within the games so player can hunt for that item, such as event or increase the number of quest or increase the number of gems promotion

2. The admin could help the newbie directly who need support the most, by giving free consumable goods such as reskill, restat, puke which is tradeable when newbie reach a certain lv, so it will help the newbie to have initial investment within the games, that also can be a new source income for player, and increase retention rate player in order to have that item.

3. The admin could increse the  money supply within the games, It can be by increasing drop rate, or increasing value of certain good to increase player purchasing power, or generate new source of income, can be from farming or fishing, or crafting item, that can be sell with a fair price to npc. However this plan is the opposite of the theory, only able to be implemented if it executed simultenously or after the increasing supply of consumable goods to increase the purchasing power.

4. The admin could update the private donation value based on the current market value, and reduce the minimum order. The current condition player can buy gold directly through PD at a rate of 1.5B gold per $1. Minimum gold purchase is $10. ,The purchasing power will increase by increasing the value of gold by the percentage of CPI increase, or player can buy gold direcly using gems. 

Limitations:

1. It will reduce the source of income for the admin, cause less spending of gems if consumable good is become easier to get within the gates, In order to mitigate this problem, is to increase the number of player so there will be more sales, I have audit the techinical seo and digital footprint of celestia luna, but i found, celestia luna still lack of digital marketing activities, in order to acquire new user. 

2. Its takes time to organize the event and update, since from what i heard, there is small number of staff within this game. In order to solve the problem admin need to hire more staff, or engage more volunteer of good track record player that want to contibute within this game. 

 Theres alot of theory that I want to elaborate here, but let start with this simplest one, maybe ill create more content related to this in the future, lets make this thread as an economic discussion haha

 

 

1. I don't think it's really that helpful for a newbie, due to the fact the pros dominating the event by using an alt with all of their moving speed gear to be faster than newbie so they will get more red envelopes (for example). And mostly newbie only got 2~3 of them.

2. This is tricky, i'm assuming pros will be making a bunch of alt to get free stuff such as reskill, etc and then they will selling all of those items with higher prices. ( not judging though)

3. Not a great idea, this will cause market prices to get worse

4. This is a good suggestion, I would say $50 is a good range for a minimum donations. But once again it's not that easy to make this suggestion acceptable, because in the other side they have to pay several hundred dollars for a nice server machine and a strong internet connection to host the game.

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Economy is player driven, there is nothing to fix

 

that's partly wrong tho, and kind of common misconception of "player-driven" economy. the owner/developer/publisher/administrator of the game also act as "regulator" or "government" body of the world/game. so, yes, you can do, or "fix", something, and in fact, you're the only one who can "flip" the economy upside down if you want to.

 

i sometimes, discuss mmo's economy with a friend, and the basic problem on every mmo economy are:

  1. unlimited "reserve" of in-game currency.
  2. ineffective or sometimes, non-existent, sink for the currency.

these 2 problems, should be solved within the initial game design (i.e. on analysis, design, or development stage of the game), so, we can't do much about it.

 

if we back into celestia luna case, my realistic possible solutions would be: (i'll say it blatantly, and what i said might be a little too radical, or in-accurate because my knowledge about the current state of the game is not much)

  1. stop "printing" additional "money" (in-game currency) through private donations (if you're still doing it).
    i understand that private donations are the source of income for you guys. but, you should start "regulate" or limiting yourself first if you wanna help controlling the inflation. the world/game already has unlimited reserve of money waiting to be "mined" or "farmed" by the players. by "printing" and giving it to a player in return for private donations, you only add more "money" to the market, and it's only make the inflation worse.
  2. start designing and implementing more sink(s) for the in-game currency.
    you should start gathering data about "how much money currently 'exist' and owned by the players in the game". then set a goal on how much money you want to remove from the market, and finally, build a plan or strategy on how you'll do it.
    for starter, you could start selling more "premium" items directly from npc, that players can buy with in-game currency, and make those items account or character bound. so more money can go into your sink, and prevent those items become "trade goods" in the market (you want a sink, right, not a flow for the money to move in the market). you can make it either permanent or temporary as a long duration event (like a month, or 3 months, etc). if you make it temporary, some players might start "rushing" for it, and some don't. if you make it permanent, it would another sink for the currency.
    the game already had some sinks, like crafting cost, etc. you could play around it, like increase the cost for the end game stuffs, etc.
  3. gradually decrease the amount of in-game currency that a player can "farm" at a time.
    there're some possible solution for this. you can decrease the server drop rate multiplier. or, you can remove the in-game currency drop from monster. or, you can decrease the price of specific item that being used as source of income. or, you can remove the server drop rate multiplier completely and only increase the drop rate of some selected items (raw crafting materials, trash items for money income, etc), or, you can combine those proposed solution from me, etc.

 

basically, currency sinks in game (in this case, mmo) design, is the practical implementation of fiscal policy for the game economy. it can be in form of taxes, maintenance cost for equipment, production cost for crafting, housing rent cost, etc.

in mmo, if you can design a good sink, then you create a good policy for your game economy. if you're doing a good job adapting your game's currency sinks to the "evolution" of your game economy, then you're doing a good job as the "government body" or "regulator" for your game.

 

and sadly, almost in every private server version of an mmo like this, the server wide drop rates multiplier often times become one of the factor that driving the inflation. given how "easy" it is to generate income (in-game currency or money), it's only matter of time and the prices will skyrocketed naturally, regardless the supply and demand chain. also because a market weren't only dictated by supply and demand law, it's also dictated by the amount of "money" circulated within the market or (active) population.

 

uh, somehow, it become an essay. lmao.

well, i like the discussion about mmo economy, so, can't really help it.

 

best regards, and ciao...

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@NgekNgok This was discussed a lot in Discord so you don't see it on the forums as much and this is an older topic, before big game changes that affected the economy more than basic over time inflation.

 

For your points:

  1.  We do not print money in PD, even when we did sell gold (we do not anymore) it was very very rare, so PD doesn't add gold to the game, it adds items that people use to get gold from other players. It does not print gold, it moves it around.
  2. We have discussed and gathered feedback for this already and have plans and are already implementing ways to lower the player owned gold pool.
  3. There is no fair way to do such a thing. We can't suddenly decrease the amount of income from items and monsters without changing the amount of gold players already own (it would be unfair to all new players and characters) and having to run a modify script on millions of characters is not something anyone wants to do, not to mention the game breaking bugs that could arise from it.

The takeaway is that we are working on adding features and gold sinks already.

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There is no fair way to do such a thing.

 

oh yes, of course it's unfair. you should expect backslash and collateral damage when you try to control an inflation. that's why, apart from trying to slow the inflation down or stop it, at the same time, you should also try to make short-time sinks that can remove the money from market, as much as possible. the point is, when you try to stop an inflation, at the same time, you should also try to move the market into healthier state. if you do it separately, or consecutively, it might ended up as another failure, or the results weren't good enough.

 

you can take a look at Tree of Savior as a case study. ToS suffer from inflation driven by (partly) the gold-sellers. the gold-sellers generate a very big sum of in-game currency and adding it to the market. and IMC's last attempt to control their game economy is, removing the currency drop from monster completely. it's not the best solution, but it's still a working solution. while IMC succeed to slow the growth of money within the market, IMC also failed to remove as much as money from the market, in the end, it's only stalled the market and the prices are pretty much unchanged. and it's also true that the damage mostly done to newbies and mid-level players, while veterans didn't take much since they're, veterans, they still got it "easy" when it comes for "farming". but IMC also already implement changes for character growth/progression rewards. the rewards were generous enough to make the newbie or new character progressed smoothly to the late-game stage (in term of leveling). there're more going on in ToS, but in term of controlling their game economy, slowing down inflation, and fighting gold-sellers, IMC finally able to get a "good" result and gain "control", at least for now.

 

to put it simply:

  1. stop the money from entering the market
  2. break or "destroy" the market, then rebuild it.
  3. brace yourself (both of you and your playerbase/community. some will be genuinely pissed and butthurted.)

i rarely see an mmo taking drastic measure to "fix" their economy and somehow manage to get a "working" solution. ToS is the last one that i witnessed directly and become part of the "collateral damage". yeah, it's quite interesting and fun to see.

 

i didn't say it would be easy and harmless to your playerbase. also, afaik, most private server, working based on the reverse-engineered version of the game, some even build their own backend for the server-side. unlike the original developer who had access to the source code for both client and server of the game. so yeah, i could imagine the technical difficulties. and the "base design" of the game is already flawed and not-optimized.. for me, it's simply, "the effort needed and the payroll, doesn't added up" lmao.

 

all in all, it's still an interesting and fun topic to talk about. most theme park mmo suffer the some problem when it comes for the economy. sandbox mmo get it slightly better, because naturally, they had to think about the economy more seriously from the start.

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